John Feinstein drops hammer on UNC re: “The Scandal”… and then…

Feinstein
BobLee
August02/ 2017

John Feinstein Drops Hammer on UNC re: TGU et al… AND THEN:

Renown Sports columnist and author John Feinstein pops a cap – drops a hammer – levels a haymaker et al…. on UNCCH for TGU blah blah blah ….

He stops short of advocating DEATH PENALTY but blasts Bubba pretty hard….

First Feinstein Column – LINK

 

THEN….

Very Angry Tru Blue board monkeys respond just like you would expect them to… citing Feinstein’s Duke heritage blah blah blah …. Yawn.

 

THEN….

Feinstein writes a follow-up commentary blasting the Tru Blue board monkeys for usimg the worn-out and trite “You’re a Damn Dookie” attack play.

…Describes how much it pains him to bash both St. Dean and Ol’ Roy… but he (John) has to “do my job as an investigative journalist”.

Follow-Up Feinstein Column – LINK

.

AND…. As an extra BONUS!

There are incredibly insightful reader comments from Yours Truly with both Feinstein commentaries.   Kinda surprised no comments from “my buddy Chansky” who is a long time pal of Feinstein… or used to be.

Hammers + Scandals + Board Monkeys = Fodder Fest!

###

If you didn’t follow all the 50+ Reader Comments on the Hugh Freeze column, DEFINITELY go back and catch them.  Some REALLY good’uns…. including a new CNR Says!

The Hugh Freeze Column – LINK.

BobLee
  • ScottieJ Reply
    2 months ago

    Late to this party but had to say your observation of our upside down priorities vis-a-vis indoor practice facilities and children’s hospitals made me gulp loudly. Spot on my friend and thank you for the profundity.

    • BobLee Reply
      2 months ago

      Thanks. It ain’t that hard to be profound if one has one’s own website. 🙂

  • Tin foil hat heel Reply
    3 months ago

    I applaud the flagship fighting tooth and nail to the bitter end. Roy is right, the flagship has done nothing wrong. At least no more than anyone else ever has. College sports is forever a sham, and in many ways the higher educational system has become a hustle as well. the state people should know this as they should be the last ones throwing stones considering in what a historically glass house they dwell in. And though Feinstein talks about how the flagship gets their day in court seven days hence I give you the counter take of Jay Bias who thinks the NCAA will lose if the flagship takes this to Federal court. One big misstep though, Bubba needed to keep his big mouth shut, especially since this predates him.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      I agree that all “this” has, and will continue to, reveal more about “us” as a very hypocritical society. That NCAA could very well lose in Federal court is a likelihood since UNC has mucho better lawyers than NCAA can afford. “Expensive lawyers” get that way by saving their clients very expensive legal judgements. In this case the “expense” is in public image which is invaluable to UNCCHers.
      .
      As for Bubba… I think he has seen all this as a tremendous professional challenge for him to maneuver thru. He will forever be linked to “all this” in NCAA / UNC history even though he was never an instigator.

    • Dr. Vinnyboombatz Reply
      3 months ago

      The NCAA is a voluntary organization of which UNC and other colleges and universities are members.
      .

      Lawsuits by members of voluntary organizations are pretty much only successful if the organization GROSSLY violates it’s own rules and bylaws. This is not the case here, in that the NCAA enforcement carefully dotted all it’s I’s and crossed all it’s T’s.
      .
      This is one reason that this case has taken so long to process.The NCAA knew a very long time ago that UNC would try and take legal action against them. I agree that UNC has some really excellent litigators but their case is not strong enough to matter.

      • BobLee Reply
        3 months ago

        Maybe that is the only card UNCCH has to play… or maybe their gaggle o’ lawyers are simply playing UNCCH for every $1,000/hour they can bill’em.

        • Dr. Vinnyboombatz Reply
          2 months ago

          You very well could be correct with BOTH of your theories.
          Also, I think UNC PTB believe that they must exhaust every possible avenue to avoid NCAA sanctions here to appease their true blue Koolade guzzling fanbase.

          • Doug
            2 months ago

            This is not new news. In every aspect of life the flavor of the day seems to be to litigate until the bitter end and then litigate the supposed bitter end, all designed of course to keep the issue du jour going in perpetuity.

          • BobLee
            2 months ago

            AaaaHAA…. a sinister plot by The News & Observer to maintain readership for several more years.

          • Doug
            2 months ago

            No need for no dadgummed N&O or that damn Dan Kane. I’m been assured by the “Koolade guzzling fanbase” that there’s nothing to see here. Move along. The NCAA will all be on their knees soon begging for forgiveness.😎

          • NCSU68Grad
            2 months ago

            Comment PRIOR to evening Adult Beverage
            The “knees” reference makes me wonder. WILL the UNC Crowd, lead by the Blue Smurfette, finally realize that their ONLY way out is with Knee Pads and Personal Service (open to either gender or TG of COURSE)?
            .
            I think that possibility exists IF the NCAA is really super “urinated” about the UNC’s “you have NO jurisdiction” ploy. If and ONLY if a banner is to be taken down and several season’s games (wins?) vacated will UNC then break out the Knee Pads and assume the position. Perhaps they can retain Monica for instructional videos…
            .
            BUT, since I have seen more “moons” than ORW, I do NOT know if I really be around….once the courts and the UN have heard all the arguments and all the lawsuits have been cleared. The UNC Chapel Hill Fund, with a major downturn as the Lefty Libs are predicting (and praying for), could well dry up the “excess undesignated earnings” petty cash drawer.
            .
            Sure is a bunch of comments over a fairly innocuous article. Must be the heat…or the boredom.

      • Dr. Vinnyboombatz Reply
        2 months ago

        In less than 48 hours TSIATGR in Nashville.

        • BobLee Reply
          2 months ago

          Don’t put the champagne on ice just yet…

  • fayettewuf Reply
    3 months ago

    I am sure the conclusion of this mess will result in gnashing of teeth and rending of collegiate sweatshirts in Raleigh and Chapel Hill. I really don’t care whether Dean is found guilty of masterminding the scam or not. Given Dean’s rise as a coach, his apparent pride in his players’ accomplishments after basketball and the fact that the landscape changed dramatically during his tenure, I could see him supporting the creation of an AFAM department.
    .
    It could have made sense to have a major that the players that he was recruiting might have some interest in and a chance of earning a degree. (Me, you got a sociology department, you don’t need one for every subculture). Did the AFAM department’s mission get perverted? No question. I do see its preversion as an evolution rather than a full blown scheme dreamed up by Dean.
    .
    IMHO the penalties should set Carolina’s programs back enough so that any other school thinking of trying something like AFAM scam would reconsider.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      I would define your IMHO as a modified “Salt their fields”… what Rome did to Carthage so Carthage could never mount another threat to Rome.
      .
      I’m not sure what combination of penalties / sanctions does that. Certainly several years of No-Postseason will set-back recruiting for “many” years. Taking away Banners (05 and 09) is a pretty big deal. $$$ penalty is irrelevant. A No-Posteseason ban could drive ORW to “go away” and who knows what that creates.

      • fayettewuf Reply
        3 months ago

        I read what I posted and meant to say I did not see the support for an AFAM department by Dean as a dastardly scheme to keep the at risk eligible. Dean was not having sit guys because of academics.
        A couple of years of not getting to play post-season and some scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions would set them back, I think.

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          So your premise is that Dean’s idea of an AfAm curriculum became bastardized by his minions for purposes beyond what he envisioned… I can see that.
          .
          Would that be similar to Charles Manson waiting in the car while his gang went in and murdered Sharon Tate et al when all he intended was for them to rob and scare them? Which is indeed what happened. FWIW… I like characterizing Burgess McSwain and Deborah Crowder as “The Manson Girls”. Not sure which one is “Squeaky”.

  • Doug Reply
    3 months ago

    Having read through some of the suggested penalties of your readers for the NCAA to dole out to UNC, I’ve come to the conclusion that the same penalties were suggested as far back as the 70’s before there ever was a TGU. In other words, go to any message board, pick a date since dinosaurs went extinct and UNC’s wished for penalty is unchanged. I don’t know which I’ll enjoy more. Watching UNC fans becoming unhinged or watching foes becoming unhinged. It’s a win-win either way. 😎

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      It will definitely be a Day of Discombobulation… either shared by both UNC and ABCers alike in mutual discontent… or a massive meltdown by one side while the other side goes “hats & horns” …

  • wolfdon Reply
    3 months ago

    Ever since MW, JS, and DK came on the scene 5 years ago to uncover the scandal that began when DC, BM, and Dr. N hatched a scheme about 18 years before which spilled over into other departments to include JB that paragon of ethics……….we have known what a cesspool existed at Chapel Hill. Glad that JF has discovered the truth and finally spoken out about it.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      I decoded all that except “JB”. Not “John Bunting”… “John Blake” ???

      • wolfdon Reply
        3 months ago

        Jan ” we have to be careful how were word this ” Boxill

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          Ahhh yes… “THE MOST ethical person I know…” S. Hatchell 2015

  • Jay Reply
    3 months ago

    The responses to Feinstein’s column are incredibly disappointing. No one seems to care that UNC gained an immoral and unethical competitive advantage over it’s peers for 2 decades with those classes. Education is based on truth if nothing else and I expect most UNC Alum to understand that. Why do they disregard truth in favor of legal loopholes and questions of NCAA jurisdiction? Why don’t they demand their school to lead the way to “Redemption”, a term liberally applied to their last Hoops National Championship? Incredible and saddening, because these are educated people who should know the difference between right and wrong.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      FWIW: Feinstein’ s attackers could easily be of the dreaded Wal-Mart faction. Scary…

  • PTH Reply
    3 months ago

    As a State grad and former athlete I would like to see their (UNC’s) athletic program suffer a similar fate as State’s did, but State self-inflicted many of it’s wounds and I don’t expect UNCCH to do that. I pretty much agree with you on the titles and fine, but with at least 2yrs of postseason eliminated, in the revenue sports and any other sports that were actively involved in the scandal. I believe UNC’s football program has been legit since Fedora was hired and they were punished for the agent pay deal so maybe only 1yr post season for them. That is my reasonable sentence, but my heart wants them to receive the “death penalty” forever. I have family and friends who suffered careerwise because of their systematic cheating and to make matters worse they have maintained an attitude of superiority that makes the NY Yankees look like the pre 2016 Cubs. They cheated systematically for an admitted 18 yrs, more than likely 25 to 35 yrs, and bragged about their accomplishments. They deserve Hell, that may happen later, and Dean will be there to greet them. The really sad part of this senario is that as long as the other schools in the university system are governed by such a rigged system nothing much will ever change. I had hoped Margaret Spelling had some “Balls” but I guess that was just too much to hope for.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      “Ma” Spelling, in a weak attempt to appease all factions, has pretty much disappointed them all. She thought she could reach out to the rabid left faculty and admins and THAT is ALWAYS a costly mistake
      .
      There is no Larry Monteith in Chapel Hill. The vain arrogance of Franklin Street is bone-deep. It is who they are.
      .
      Thank you for noting that the penalties for The Butch / Blake football crap have already been served. Many forget that.

      • PTH Reply
        3 months ago

        Would not “Ma” Spellings 1st priority as the president of the UNC Board of Governors be the protect and enhance the academic standings of the member institutions? If this is correct, would it not be in direct conflict to continue the previous path of trying to cover the asses of the UNCCH athletic department and the “fat cats” bragging rights.
        .
        Maybe athletics is more important than academics, maybe the donations from the “fat cats” exceeds what the university receives from the citizens of the state. Based on my limited knowledge of how the finances of these institutions of learning are accumulated and used, I would guess not. Most athletic departments I am told, use up more resources than they create, so it would be my guess that intercollegiate sports contribute very little to the bottom line.
        .
        So why the hell are these people determined to risk, what even I recognize as potentially seriously damaging the reputation of UNCCH for a few wins and trophies?

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          You have uncovered a fatal flaw in human nature…. sigh! 😳
          .
          This line of “How come dat…” leads us to why there are MANY MORE “Indoor Practice Facilities (w/ w/out Smoothie Machines)” than there are St. Jude’s Children Hospitals and/or even Ronald MacDonald Houses ??? The answer to that “why” is not favorable to “the Nature of Mankind”.

  • BobH Reply
    3 months ago

    The UNC BOG should demand resignations from the chancellor whoever is tying to fill Bill Friday’s shoes and every single basketball, football, baseball and tiddlywinks coach at the school.

    Terry Sanford (that lard-arsed pos) had the guts to end the Dixie Classic. The BOG should be no less determined to demand excellence.

    Yes, I’m a UNC graduate. The entire leadership there deserves to be axed.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      I don’t think Terry Sanford had anything to do with axing The Dixie Classic. That was a Bill Friday call as I recall. Many have expressed concern that The BOG has steered way clear of the UNC Scandal. Their silence has been deafening…. as has the silence of ACC Commish Johnny Swofford.
      .
      What you are advocating is a self-imposed DEATH PENALTY for UNCCH Athletics. The NCAA certainly will not go that far. Your idea will find supporters among the 17 other members of The UNC system, I’m sure.

      • Former96heel Reply
        3 months ago

        I’m not sure I agreed with much from Bill Friday, but it does seem he had a moral constitution. I believe it is telling that no leader at the institution felt the need to stare down the athletic beast. In today’s world of big money, would a current President Friday have had the gumption to inflict career suicide, and tame the Athletic/Academic powers that be?

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          Ma Spelling has not demonstrated such gumption yet …. she probably won’t.

  • myowngrandpaw Reply
    3 months ago

    The ONLY thing that has come from this debacle is UNC fans have gone from “UNC is the cleanest, winningest sports program in the country” to “UNC is the winningest sports program in the country, and we don’t care how, because “everybody” cheats”.

    As the Duke lacrosse case has shown, it does not matter how many lawyers and money Duke threw at the scandal, GOOGLE will remain!

    When you GOOGLE “academic fraud” North Carolina fills the page.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      BUT when / if ever “the smoke clears” all those obnoxious UNC fans will still be every bit as obnoxious. In the end what difference will it all make. Dean will always be their Messiah regardless.

      • myowngrandpaw Reply
        3 months ago

        OBNOXIOUS is never going away. Once among themselves they are obnoxious to each other. Trying to one up each other on how many times they met Dean. Brag about the new blue Cadillac. Seat location. Shinier weejuns. Alpaca vest. What golf course they belong to.

        Speaking of Dean. Whatever happened to YOGI POTEET? Saw his head and shoulders play basketball in Woolen. I was too small as a kid to see over the guy in the bleachers in front of me.

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          Your stereotypes are valid. Yogi would be pushing 80 if still fogging mirrors.

  • @CarolineduRosso Reply
    3 months ago

    So Bob, as a UNC guy what exactly do YOU think the penalty should be? I’ve taken to asking Carolina folks this very question lately and they hem and haw (errors of omission rather than commission don’t you know) and usually come up with a list of minor penalties tantamount to a traffic fine. So, again, what say you Bob?

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      While I did matriculate “over there” multi-decades ago, my credentials as “a UNC guy” were deactivated by mutual agreement 6-8 years ago. Counting my opinion as “one UNC guy thinks” should be done with caution.
      .
      UNC’s glorious mess is a “white collar crime” as opposed to Baylor’s or Louisville’s more “crimes against man, woman and nature”. Since I intend to discuss all this in a pre-NashvilleShowdown Column” next weeks, I will be curt.
      .
      As a “should be”… I’d propose forfeiting BOTH 2005 and 2009 NCs… a hefty fine in the $30-50,000,000 range that MUST come from the Admin/Coach Salary budget, NOT a Fat Cat’s petty cash account. i.e. “make it hurt”. Tattooing “My name is Roy and I’m a Cheater” across Roy’s forehead would be a nice touch.
      .
      Hitting the current team with scholarships limits or TV $$$ or post-season eligibility is all possible too.
      .
      UNCs only defense of late is “Yes WE DID IT and Yes IT WAS WRONG… but we got away with it for over 20 years and that oughta count for something” is A HOOT but other than giggles, it ain’t worth $20,000,000 in fancy lawyer fees.

      • BobH Reply
        3 months ago

        Amen, Brother! AMEN!!!!!

        And I would fire everyone in the administration and all coaches for NCAA sports. I know people who where at The Hill when I was who had Honor Court hearings based on hearsay that they had cheated. Why or why did we lose our moral fortitude and ethical guideposts?

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          BobH… you are quickly becoming A VERY FINE FELLOW to our resident contrarian Bre’r Kennel.

      • @CarolineduRosso Reply
        3 months ago

        Well said. This scandal goes beyond kids selling tickets and/or shoes so a harsh penalty is called for. Although I never attended Carolina myself, it’s a state school, the ‘jewel in the crown’ as they say and malfeasance reflects upon us all. If my beloved NCSU had done the same I can tell you right now, the next time they had some silken voice coed call me up, trying to sweet-talk some old codger out of a donation, I’d tell her in no uncertain terms she’s getting maybe half what I usually give. Ok, seventy five percent MAX (and I want a t-shirt)!

      • NCSU68Grad Reply
        3 months ago

        Hmmmm. I think that I read this before. If you read Feinstines “The Legends” book, the man is a prolific note taker and filer. He seems pretty straight and the Dean, Mickey and Valvano comments and factoids in the book jibe with what others have written.
        I think that Wayne Weldon and Jan Boxill ought to be cast away, Naked and Afraid, on Jekyl island. Check on them in a decade or so. Maybe have Roy and Sylvia do a short stint on the new atoll off the Outter Banks. Do NOT film them. Maybe 3 months without supplies.

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          Innovative solutions …. 😎

  • uncleron Reply
    3 months ago

    Somewhere there needs to be a place to insert a YouTube of Nicholson’s “truth” speech in “A Few Good Men”.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Or the scene in The Man Who Would Be King when the villagers realize Sean Connery is not a God and throw him and Michael Caine into the bottomless ravine. Except the hard-core TruBlues will NEVER accept that DES was NOT a God.

      • BobH Reply
        3 months ago

        That quasi-religious worship for Dean came later. He was not expected to get a contract and was hung in effigy. Maybe he should have been hung by his neck with a rope.

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          I never thought Dean sought his messianic status but he learned how to use it to his advantage over time. His Myth & Legend seemed to increase significantly upon his retirement and passing. As Jimmy V’s Legend did upon his passing.

  • Porgie Reply
    3 months ago

    And now NC STATE basketball will be punished because a player DID go to class. Go figure.Yea, I know there are a few more details involved in the situation. But…

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      ??? … haven’t seen that?

    • BobH Reply
      3 months ago

      They put slick Jimmie V in the trinity when he recruited Charles Washburn but couldn’t get his SATs above 500 … or keep him from stealing from other jocks at the athletes motel.

      Where are those coyote-cool, slide rule boffins who would insist on coaches of the moral and technical achievement attained by Everett Case?

      • BobLee Reply
        3 months ago

        Oops… now you are risking that afore-mentioned BFF status with Bre’r Kennel. ‘Dems fighting words to BK. Keep your head on a swivel. BK might be hunting you…

      • Gear Up Reply
        3 months ago

        Devil Incarnate Dean recruited the very same Chris Washburn. Let’s not forget the academic scholars Wallace, Peppers, Taylor, and T-Rex of the Bloody Beak.

  • Gear Up Reply
    3 months ago

    BobLee,

    Here’s your column title for the start of the third week of August: “They wuz called to da Principal’s office in Indy: How Roy, Larry and Sylvia saw no evil, heard no evil or spoke no evil to the big bad NCAA”
    .
    I imagine good ol’ boys Roy and Larry leave Sylvia holding the bag … bag of TGU cash for Greg to dole out the tongue-lashing and sanctimonious kabuki theatre tap dance on how they did no wrong. Roy walks, Larry limps and Sylvia is carried out on a stretcher. Two weeks later all will be forgotten as everyone in the Power 5 will be undefeated and untarnished for another season of BTCF.
    .
    Cheers,

    Wolfpack Air Warrior from the Class of ’79

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      The Big Showdown will be in Nashville, not Indy. Don’t know why. We can only hope that Roy gets a turn at the mic… that could be EPIC!

  • Elrod Reply
    3 months ago

    Thanks for the link to the new Feinstein article, as I had not seen it. It was pretty much what I expected, with one notable exception. I REALLY like one of his closing statements, “But I wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t mention the dates because they are FACTS. Being an adult isn’t always easy.” I am still waiting for the adults to stand up on this issue, from several angles.

    You really stuck out the lightning rod on this one, BL, then let go of it to see how many strikes it collects. Good Job!!

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Feinstein notes he is risking Roy’s friendship. I would be curious about that. Roy being Roy would likely call him or write a paper letter blasting him. He’s been known to do that on various occasions.

    • BobH Reply
      3 months ago

      Well said. I pray that lightning strikes them all with a vengeance.

  • Bob Kennel Reply
    3 months ago

    Feinstein writes well and sees clearly. We’ll get a feel in 2 weeks, possibly by listening for squeals from Chapel Hill.
    In a sense I can feel for the athletes and coaches somewhat, but not for the lawyers, public relations people, administrators, academic support personnel, NCAA compliance people, and arrogant fans ( both fat cats and monkey boarders). Somehow the AD is falling fast into this second category.
    Obviously, much more to come !!!! 😎😎😎

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Once Bubba decided to stick it out (he turned down Florida and Tennessee AD jobs at MEGA-$$$) he was committed to “be a mob lawyer”. Whether he agreed or not, it is his job to represent his employer 100%.

      • Dr. Vinnyboombatz Reply
        3 months ago

        While the COI meets with Bubba and Co in Music City, I wonder how many times Hank Williams'(I think no relation to Roy) “YOUR CHEAT’N HEART” will get played.

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          Once the scam was in-place with Dean’s blessing back in 1992-ish; I doubt anyone around UNCCH gave it a 2nd thought. It HAD to be OK IF DEAN SAYS IT IS… The Cult of Dean was so UNquestionable… and remains pretty much so today. He truly had a “drink this Kool-Aid because I say you should and I know best” mystique about him.
          .
          Even IF they get The Death Penalty (absolutely NOT a chance) the Birth of The Scam will never stick to Dean. The two “Manson Girls” will take the fall.

          • BobH
            3 months ago

            One of the things on my bucket list is to find his grave and micturate thereupon. It shall be right after I’ve done same on LBJ’s grave.

          • BobLee
            3 months ago

            Not sure I want to see that entire Bucket List …

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