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Just Suppose UNC was.....

Just Suppose UNC was.....

...... Aug 13, ’12: It’s not and it never will be.... but just suppose UNC-CH aka “The Vaunted Flagship of The UNC Fleet” was not located in Chapel Hill but instead was located in Statesville? So what you say? Say a lot of the emotions of the backfence rivalry would be dissipated if it wasn’t “a backfence rivalry”.   Would it still be “farm boys vs frat boys” with all the old worn out insults lobbed back / forth? Sure, but it would be different. ......

Because this website has a broader global penetration than a myopic 25 mile diameter circle, I am often asked by “people from faraway places with strange sounding names” like Texas, Missouri, Virginia, Florida, etc why is the NC State v Carolina rivalry such a BFD back there..

I often reply using an old aphorism from my mom. “An inch isn’t very long, unless you stick it on the end of your nose.” I’m not sure how that applies but it usually buys me a few seconds for something even cleveier.

The State/Carolina Rivalry is not a BFD except for State and Carolina fans but in a rivalry that’s pretty much all you need – two rivals. Maybe there are ménage a trios rivalries but that seems kinky.   Two families, schools, cities, barbecue restaurants, NASCAR teams, or two 10th grade blond cheerleaders that really really dislike one another for real or imagined reasons.

If the genus of the rivalry is mythical (never really happened) it can make the rivalry even more intense as neither side will ever admit it really has no idea why they hate each other..... “we just always have, that’s why.”   Was it a Hatfield or a McCoy that shot the other family’s pig? Both sides swear it was the other what kilt our pig so.....

“...... we went and tipped over their outhouse not knowing their granny was in it at the time and first thing we know five of us and four of them was all gut shot and bleedin’ out down by the crick......”

Forty years later they were still ambushing one another.   That is pretty typical of rivalries.

So anywho, back to Statesville...... What DOES make the State/Carolina Rivalry somewhat worthy of studying is the tight geographical footprint due to the 28 mile distance twixt the two campi.   Both schools are in the same modest SMSA metro-area and must therefore share the same media market.

That assures that no matter what the local media reports, it can count on being lambasted by both fan bases as being “in the tank” for the other one. Although for the immediate time being The N&O’s Dan Kane is being accorded Philip Rivers / David Thompson hero-status on The Brickyard.   Not so much so in Chapel Hill.

The only possible comparison is USC v UCLA but the LA market is an anomaly. Most folks in LA don’t really pay much attention to either one all that much. Maybe if USC had traded for Dwight Howard and The Kardashians were UCLA cheer skanks..... maybe.

To change the “backfence” nature of NCSU v UNC, one could move either school. Do away with ECU and move NCSU to Greenville.   LOOK OUT – INCOMING!!! ..... just supposing. That’s why I’m suggesting UNC to Statesville.

My scenario supposes UNC was originally founded in Statesville (or Hickory or Newton-Conover. Any of’em would do). Relocating UNC now is probably not a feasible option although these ARE unusual times so who knows?

If the NCAA or the SBI or a band of Wuff-commandos sneak over and salt the fields of Kenan; UNC may have to relocate anyway.

The location of the UNC System HQ could stay in the now deserted town of Chapel Hill or move to Mebane as it chooses.

UNC-Statesville would abdicate Raleigh-Derm-Cary (and Chapel Hill) to WuffNation. UNC would pickup strength in The Triad and even more support in The Great State of Mecklenburg.   Other than its physical location 100 miles further west, UNC would be exactly the same institution it is today.

It would still have an Old Well, a Bell Tower, nutjob faculty like Gene Nichol, a Dean Dome, a football stadium with some pine trees, lots of grungy beer bars on a “main drag”, a planetarium, and certainly still it’s very own “Way”. It would certainly have to still have it’s own “Way”.

As long as UNC had a law school and Raleigh was the State Capitol, lots of UNC lawyers would gravitate there. Seats of guvmint attract lawyers like roadkill attracts buzzards.   That analogy works on many levels. But it is likely that UNC grads would dissipate more geographically than under the present scenario.

The backfence rivalry would then approximate the UVa v VaTech rivalry. Charlottesville and Blacksburg being far enough apart to avoid wholesale confrontations in every Target check-out line as we now have in “The Triangle”.

Auburn v Alabama and UGa v GaTech don’t sit cheek by jowl to one another. Texas v aTm..... OU v OkState.... Mizzou v KU (oops, that one’s dead now!).... Ohio State v Michigan all have 100 miles or so twixt campuses. Having a DMZ seems to be “a good thing” in such emotional matters.

So... I vote we appoint Richard “Dickie” Baddour as chair of an ad hoc committee to study this proposal.   He can have Todd Turner, Dumplin’ Perdue and Jennifer Wiley’s cable guy on his committee.   I will let you know when Dickie submits his findings. It will, no doubt, be an extensive investigation... knowing Dickie as we do.

Actually if Hinton James had just kept on walking west for another day or so back in 1795 then ......

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Posted: August 12, 2012 at 11:25 PM by SaidWHATMedia | with 28 comments

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Comments

	Joshua
	I love this post! How fun {and nerve-wracking} to have such a fierce rvlairy in the family. I come from a long line of Carolina fans but my brother married a Duke girl and their marriage is still going strong. She is precious.Hope you're doing well, sweet friend. I've been keeping up with your posts in my reader but I usually read it on my phone and ugh, leaving comments via phone is just no fun. ______ BL: Thanks. "Enjoy" is why I do it. .
	8/30/2012 7:10:02 PM

	Ted
	Statesville. I'm a State guy who works with the rural folk in that area and am from North Meck and Cabarrus. You know they tried Tom Dula (Dooley in popular culture) over there? Lake Norman's there too. Davidson would veto the move for various reasons. Besides, they already have MIT there (Mitchell in Town) so I am just not sure they could handle another institution of higher learning at least not right now. But you never know! Could provide an interesting twist on things red and blue. I would say that moving the entire UNC system administration away from Chapel Hill might just be in everybody's interest at least for awhile. Something to that idea of fresh air and the smell of real cow and chicken manure might add a dose of the real world to these folks I think who are spending taxpayer money at such a high burn rate. And oh by the way Alabama and Auburn do pretty well with their rivalries being a bit apart as do Texas and Texas A&M (though I would lament the passing of that last one to the TV gods and the SEC of which I have a true special detestation for) so the distance thing is not that big deal. Now this TV thing and conference expansion reducing the basketball games between the two to one a year - now that is a problem my good friends! And speaks of more to come along with the issues now on the table. Time to fight back. At some point, you lose your soul and that is not worth the return on investment. _______ BL: The intent of relocating UNC to Statesville (or Salisbury, etc) is not to dissolve the rivalry but to remove both schools from each other's shadow. There are several rivalries where the intensity of the partisan emotions is more toxic that NCS v UNC.... and along the same stereotypical lines. But the schools can have a geo-identity separate from one another. .
	8/23/2012 8:54:19 AM

	Alan Pate
	Hey BL. love your work, but you are a little bit off on this one. The location of UNC makes no difference. As long as they continue to think they are God's gift to mankind, no matter what, they will be hated. And they are hated all throughout the land. NC State hates them a little more because the media blesses Carolina's history, education, and ivy covered throne as the wonderful virtuous Flagship of the state system. At the same time the media ignores huge contributions to the state, nation, and world from a major engineering, agriculture, business, and manufacturing-oriented university. They ignore "Co-Flagship" status for NC State, the largest university in the state, and the best for any studies other than liberal arts. Move Carolina to Statesville. Maybe they will meet a few of the people they claim as "The University of the People". ________ BL: Alan, the UNC people I hang out with don't think that way. But I do know some that do. I've separated myself from that faction years ago. Some of my UNC folks are in positions of influence, thankfully. Having lived in other not dissimilar locales, I observed similar partisan animosity twixt similar institutions. I find partisans tend to measure their opponents by their opponents very worst; and measure themselves by the very best among themselves. That statement usually raises eyebrows a bit. :-) .
	8/17/2012 1:41:15 PM

	thailand
	Vitriolic lynch mobs not quite the same as painting the wishing well red or the railroad tunnel 'pale' blue (a Norm Sloan pejorative), even stealing old Ramses, etc......Lots of knuckleheads out there on both sides--some who should know better, and some who never will.....Wish we could go back to some "old memories" of campus antics and mischief when there wasn't the daily deluge of Internet smacking --remember when six State football players dressed in camouflaged army fatigues with blackened faces scaled the 1911 Building and slipped into a professor's office to steal his final exam....Mission accomplished, they turned in their ill-gotten papers on exam day and received immediate F's. Seems the prof on the way out of his office that morning cut an inch off the bottom of the exam papers.....The players received F's in the course yet did retained their eligibility, but Earl had them all running the steps.....Funny war stories abound, but what is in the news these days will not bear many chuckles from future alums......We need to bring back the humor though--that's for sure.....Being stalked by a Butch/Deems toady?......Being called a 'toady' is amusing.....I think there are a lot of 'toadies' red-faced and vitriolic in both blue and red these days......India once separated its Muslims from its Hindus forming Pakistan--that really didn't work either......Statesville and Raleigh would both be armed with nuclear weapons......Tar Heels from 'States'ville probably would not work. __________ BL: Pranks are good. Board monkeys not so good.... .
	8/15/2012 3:23:06 AM

	riddickfield
	The class warfare thing is indeed the most ironic part of a rivalry. Carolina folk say that state folk are all a bunch of slack jawed toothless rednecks from the farm, State folk say carolina folk are all a bunch of slack jawed toothless rednecks from Wal-mart. To compare the two schools graduates is, as an old friend likes to say, like comparing apples and ducks. Now if carolina were in Charlotte, that would indeed introduce a whole new element of vitriol. Having grown up in Charlotte and now living in Raleigh I always hear about this from my sister (carolina grad... bless her heart). Her favorite is "Raleigh is getting a second belt line, they have not even finished the first around Charlotte!" The first city of NC argument is another bitter debate. _______ BL: The Wal-Mart thing is a sub-set of how some Wuffs try to categorize "all UNC fans". The term came into being as Michael Jordan's fame skyrocketed. Certainly that faction exists and UNCers admit it exists. State has an element of that that has never set foot in The Brickyard. Duke has a large faction every time they win a NatChamp. I have many State friends. Only ONE even has a rural background and he has worn a suit and tie for 30 years. So much for stereotypes. I dare say none of my State friends even know which end of a pig the milk comes out of. And all but three of my close UNC friends are as Conservative and heterosexual as I am. Another UNC myth busted. .
	8/14/2012 8:39:48 PM

	riddickfield
	Gotta disagree with you on this one Bob. As an Engineer the rivalry is more than one school against another, it does involve a bit of class warfare. When I was working at a certain pharma plant on Capitol Blvd. most of the Engineers were State grads and the blue collar folks were UNC fans. In Roy's first year we had the state/carolina game on a weeknight, carolina upset state that night. The next morning the boilerhouse night shift guys printed out about 50 unc logos and taped them to the walls, ceiling and floor all the way through the engineering building leading up to my desk. It was a light blue Hansel and Grettle trail to my desk the next morning, which was covered with the things. All good fun and I laughed the whole way. I went down to the break room at 9 to get my ribbing just to be a good sport about it. They had a lot of fun with it. You get the idea. I would think that even with the move we would be more like Clempson/USC tather than VT/UVa. Thanks again for allowing fightin' bob (apologies to the real bob) in on the fun. People were coming by to see what was so funny today. Love me some fightin' bob! Bully! LOL! _______ BL: "class warfare" is an essential part of most rivalries. Liberal Arts (frat boys) vs Land Grant (farm boys) is a combo replicated in almost every state. "We're simply better than you because ....." appeals to a dark place in all of us. To somehow equate "my team" defeating "your team" as clear proof that I AM better than you although neither of us had a single thing to do with the sports competition. One has to leave reality on the doorstep to get to there. Yale v Harvard has a different twist; but pretty much every other one has the city mouse v country mouse element. My favorite line is "They are ALL abuncha ______" That one gives me cold shivers every time. The anonymity of the Internet has driven these psycho-dramas to new depths. .
	8/14/2012 7:57:07 PM

	thailand
	I like Salisbury--pretty town, historical, home of Libby, home of the late, great Jim Hurley, Cheer Wine, Stanbach Powders, Food Lion.....Trips over to Spencer and Yadkin River inner tubing.....Western style barbecue, however, but College Barbecue is pretty tasty nonetheless.....I think you likened the Carolina scandal now to the ending of Thelma and Louise.....I was thinking of the Exorcist when little Regan came downstairs into the foyer during her mom's party and standing in her nightgown urinated on the floor in front of everyone.....Things really started to happen after that......It's time for the exorcism of Big Time College Athletics.....With conferences in flux, members jumping from one league to another, aren't there 14-20 like-minded universities that might want to play each other and leave the admissions up to the schools with the understanding that there will be no exceptions to the normal standards of admission......Fried chicken, deviled eggs, pimento cheese sandwiches, potato salad, and brownies with pecans like mom used to make taste just as great.....State should do something bold like open up its academic facility to all of its students--I hope Debbie reads this......Carolina should follow....I hope Bubba reads this..... ________ BL: Doubt Debbie does. But Bubba does. Yes, a contingent of de-emphaized schools would be "nice" but quite impractical. I hear no calls for any NCAA Reform from Alabama, LSU, Okla, Texas, et al. Until one's own alma mater gets "caught" one assumes they are "pure as the driven snow". The current lynch mob stalking UNC is representative of that attitude. :-) .
	8/14/2012 6:14:53 PM

	The Cowdog
	Your young friend should have visited with the sage the moment the Peterbilt headlights caught him in the road. He could have used you by his side in those initial pressers, as opposed to the Dynamic Duo. _______ BL: At least on his shoulder ala Jiminy Cricket. :-) .
	8/14/2012 1:58:50 PM

	WhoaNelly
	Bob Lee - Forgive me if I'm late to the party, but what's up with NC State opening on a Friday night this season? I remember several years ago Lil' Johnny stated an ACC team would never play Friday night games and interfere with a time of the week normally reserved for high school football. Is this season a first? ________ BL: Not sure if area HS will have started then. Otherwise no clue. I do recall the promise to protect HS game attendance. .
	8/14/2012 1:51:00 PM

	YogiNC
	BL, I don't think Holden deserves but about 5% of this mess. From the looks of it, the great unpleasantness is spreading faster than the black death (pun for the AFAM crowd) and no one is immune. Butch would love for that to happen but IMHO he should be at the top of the heap. __________ BL: While I don't believe AT ALL that he was ever a co-conspirator, he has been reluctant to face the reality of the depth of mess he is faced with. Some of that I attribute to his liberal core... He seems stunned by it all as it worsens. .
	8/14/2012 12:40:39 PM

	fayettewuf
	The Love Valley reference brought a smile. Beg to differ on the complete dearth of stars at the festival, the Allman Brothers were there. I feel for Thorp. He seems to be an academic who has been caught in a cross-fire. Any decisive action that he takes is going to piss somebody with clout off. __________ BL: A Chancellor's lot is a lonely one..... .
	8/14/2012 11:51:03 AM

	Paul Lambeth
	I may have said this before, but I will say it again, the African American study program has been a running joke for those in on the punchline for the better part of three decades. I wonder what MJ's transcript looks like? In the words of Jimmy Cliff, 'the harder they come, the harder they fall' and in the 24/7/365 media cycle that rules our society there is a lot more willingness to dig up all the holes in the desert. But this is something that I assure you goes on in some way shape or form at every division one football playing school in this country. And we now live in a society that thrives on the tales of downfall so look for more dirt to be dug up. Then again NONE of this would be an issue if the colleges and the NCAA would just admit to being the pimps that they are. Give these kids the opportunity to hone their talent, if they can make a buck off their exploits on the field, let 'em and if they are unable to handle the academic rigors just prepare them as best you can for 'life after sports'. But quit with the student-athlete assertion, it's garbage and echoes hollower with every passing day. Sports, like art, music, and drama, are entertainment. But there will not be 63,000 going to see the student playhouse production of Hamlet though schools must now really ask 'to be or not to be' in terms of having a hand in the high stakes game of major college athletics. The unpleasantness, USC's issues and even Penn State illustrate that truly the enterprise of college sports has become too big to fail. But it comes under scrutiny because of the hypocritical nature of the beast. Then again real change will not come until the athletes themselves demand change. Until then the major college athlete will continue to be in essence chattel. In regards to the What IF? My gut feeling is that a UNC based upon a more western locale would have an even greater 'crunchy granola' feel than the flagship already has. I think a greater debate would be what would the world be like if our friends in Rawlee had been founded in a more western locale. Or what would the world be like if the Duke family had not had such a hand in the development of that little school in Trinity. _________ BL: Paul have you noticed that calls for NCAA Reform only come from schools that have been caught... the others, like UNC used to be, are CERTAIN their school is clean. No one at Alabama or LSU is calling for change. :-) .
	8/14/2012 11:05:17 AM

	Old MacDonald
	One thing keeps bothering me BL. You are a supporter of Thorp, but it is more and more clear that Thorp is much more interested in coverup than investigation and change. Thorp's philosophy on this subject seems to run completely counter to yours, yet you still publically support him. (?) I will hang up and listen. ________ BL: Holden Thorp is my friend. I wish all the best for him and his family. I think he has made several key mistakes in this matter over the past 2 years. I wish he had zigged instead of zagging but he didn't. Surely you've had friends who made errors in business or their personal life, but they are still your friends. Right? Will he "survive" this? No, I don't believe he will. His extreme naivete re: BCS athletics and his misplaced confidence in Baddour has buried him too deep. .... Did he know all this crap was going on? No, but thats no excuse. ... sigh.
	8/14/2012 7:39:22 AM

	NCSU68Grad
	Ah, BL, if I remember correctly, you have just celebrated or pehaps ignored the calendar that marks another year of you life. I think that you must have bad Karma that is rubbing off on the pious priests of prosperity and pettulance at UNC Whoville. It has been 26 moons (will have to check with Dr. BK) since the Marvin Tweets story broke. Now, whence all the REAL UNC (University of North Chatham) skulldugery is being excavated by Mr. Kane and the Wuffies (who seem to fully understand HOW to use the Internet and found the JP Transcript.....just hanging out there) are agahst at the lack or moral, professional, political, etc. backlash, or that there of, coming from THE Flagship. Makes one want to wonder is Johnny Boy Swafford hath any knowledge of such when he held Dickie B.'s last public gig. This is like an STD.....it is the gift that keeps on giving.... Even without all the rivalry, as a resident in Statesville for 5 years and also a part-time instructor at the Community College (on the hallowed grounds of Mitchell COllege), I do NOT think that Statesville is ready for the UNC crowd and the UNC crowd is ready for Statesville. However, if you had chosen Love Valley, just North of Statesville, that might have been a perfect setting. Love Valley and it's founder, Andy Barker, would have loved it....he would have done as the Reynolds did early, MOVED IT from the REAL Wake Forest. Mr. Barker was a promoter of the first order. He was instrumental in getting LBJ to stop in Statesville in 1962 and LBJ rode into the stadium on the Love Valley Stage Coach (riding Shotgun no less) with Lady B and all the little B's in the stage. Andy Barker also wanted to get Tom Dula's body moved from North WIlkesboro to Love Valley (the LOVE cost him his life). BUT that failed. He DID promote the LV Rock Festival which rivaled Woodstock, except there were really no real stars there...no Hendricks to wake up the sleeping crowd...NADA....But the Good Ole' boys had a ball (and did quite a bit of balling) at the festival. Love Valley, YES....Statesville, NO ________ BL: OK, Love Valley it is! .
	8/13/2012 11:37:33 PM

	Charles S.
	BL, Y'all made fun of me for years because of my affinity for the amphibian in all of us. But compared to Pep and his little brother Marv, I am a bonafide NASA rocket scientist AND Mensa candidate! It is time for Bob Lee to embrace the third "R" and bring it home! Romney, Ryan and Raleigh with the new Govenor McCrory. Remember, THIS IS OUR STATE, in more ways than one. Now where's that 12-piece nugget meal? Mr. Amphibious ___________ BL: I'll grant you that Pep can join Shack & Wash on the Island Of MisFit Jocks but Shack & Wash don't get a parole. On the matter of R&R I refer you to agentpiercesaid.com .
	8/13/2012 10:50:44 PM

	CNR
	In Glasgow there are two football teams named Celtics and Rangers. For well over a century they have fought, and I mean fought, up and down the streets. It is the Jacobites vs the Prods forever. Auburn-Alabama, OSU-Michigan, State-UNC, IU-Purdue, Aggies-TSips, are games. Neither side will admit that just maybe they were responsible for the carnage over the centuries. The feuds continued here in America. You know them well. Over there, the Rangers wave the Union Jack as they sing, "God Save the Queen." The other side sings, "O Flower of Scotland" and "Scots Wha Hae". Closest I have witnessed of rancor to match is down in Bama. Have three of my boys coaching college basketball there for years. First thing asked when they each hit their town was, "Are you Bama or Auburn?" Each answered, "LSU Tigers!." "Won't do, gotta pick one or the other." That is the way it is. Same in Glasgow. Personally, I always choose the Aggie schools. Farmers, engineers, and animal docs seem to be nice people regardless of the state. And yes, TheoHeel, Ev Case was a friend of mine. ___________ BL: Hell; CNR.... Dr Naismith's granddaddy was a friend of yours!... A good lacrosse match between the Hurons and the Iroquois with the winners getting to skin the losers alive would be fun. .
	8/13/2012 9:28:33 PM

	ink-stained scribe
	BL, TravMan must not appreciate that the doctors and lawyers and the like who matriculated thru UNC never ran into either Julius in an academic building. We and our pets sure are glad the vet school at State is so good, and to my knowledge, none of the vets at Care First Animal Hospital are amphibious. _______ BL: The vets at CareFirst are WONDERFUL !!! Tying the UNC Docs to Julius' AfAM scam was quite WEIRD. And I know WEIRD when I read it. .
	8/13/2012 9:14:45 PM

	fansince1955
	WAY back in the day, there was a giant "S" in the midfield at Kenan. Amazing what road salt will do! _______ BL: I miss "pranks". And I miss nicknames too. This world went to hell when we stopped pranks & nicknames. .
	8/13/2012 7:15:21 PM

	YogiNC
	Bobby, you always manage at least one zinger that really gets me a laughin'. "Seats of guvmint attract lawyers like roadkill attracts buzzards. That analogy works on many levels." The levels there are more like powers, square here, to the third there. That was a humdinger. As for one who grew up in the midst of the Tiger/Scrappy Chicken debate (guess which side I'm on there) I can say it had a bit more intensity since there was only two "real" universities down that way, and of course the Scrappy Chickens took every opportunity to call out the Tigers as being misnamed, instead of Clemson they claimed Silo Tech was more appropriate. Every Locale has their rivalries, each with it's own cast of colorful characters. I remember well as a young lad getting caught attempting to paint the Tabor City water tower Blue and Gold. It was foolish but fun. _______ BL: Sports Rivalries are as American as apple pie and Chevrolet. I "blame" the Internet for a lot of toxicity that has permeated them. We've always had the nutjob element but they never had a voice until the Internet. It's like someone unchained them from in the basement and let'em loose. :-( .
	8/13/2012 2:28:40 PM

	butch holden dickie
	Speaking of Geography, read off a "could be" transcript of a former football/basketball alum something mind boggling. There are a many AAS classes taken that have As and Bs listed that are geographical in the discipline. Then low and behold comes a GEOG Intro to Geography : (F). This class took place before GIS even existed. All you would have to know is that they're lines up and down called latitude and side to side called longitude. That's a D in your pocket as a baseline. ________ BL: That transcript and its possible owner is not "a good thing" for those of the UNC persuasion. If its proven valid (I have no clue) it's very YUCKY for sure. .
	8/13/2012 2:23:25 PM

	FightingBobKennel, Jr.
	Well BobLee it is funny you should mention where UNC was founded because it is a little known FACT that my great-great grandpa Bob "Chancre Jack" Kennel was the reason Carolina was founded where it was! Bet you didnt know that, did you? It all started like this: Grampy Bob, who as I said was known as "Chancre Jack" because he had quite the re*****tion as a gallant with the fairer sex and as a result took medication for it. During Revolution times he had quite a business built up selling supplies to the Continentals and then back to the British and so forth. Some people who didn't understand his complicated if legally honest business practices became angry and as a result Chancre Jack had to flee for his life. With his pursuers hot on his trail Grampy was riding along in Chatham County when he met a cobbler walking along the road. This cobbler was an honest fellow but the truth is that his wits did not skip like roasted chestnuts. In fact all the honest cobbler could keep in his head was "Meat" and "Ale" and "tenpence for thy shoon, good Hinton, tenpence for thy shoon." "Why how now, good fellow, what is your name?" asked Grandpa. The cobbler replied, "Hinton, sir, honest cobbler of Chatham." "Have you your letters, good Hinton?" asked Chance Jack with a wink, for he knew he spoke with no scholar. The honest cobbler replied that he did not, but that he had studied pictures in the Bible and would learn his letters given the chance. "Then it is truly your day of joy," said Grandpa. "For close behind me is a group of men who are forming an Institution for Higher Learning, and if you but slow them down by blocking the road with trees or somesuch they will give you free tuition - er, school fees," said Grandpa, noting that the cobbler's brow wrinkled with confusion. "But hurry now, or you will miss the chance." "I am your man, as sure as my name is Hinton James," the cobbler replied. And with that, he set to work barricading the road as Chancre Jack road off with a chuckle. Not fifteen minutes later my Grandpa's pursuers rode pell-mell into the branches and barricade set by Hinton James, and with terrible oaths they seized him and beat him nearly insensible. "If you want letter, walk up to the chapel and ask, blasted fool!" the men cried, for they were much scratched by the barricade. "For now, here is some early education!" and they beat him some more. When they left, the sore and disappointed fool walked sorrowfully to the local chapel, where they bandaged him and taught him his letters in exchange for some open-toed sandals. And thus the University of North Carolina was born. In fact Chancre Jack's gravestone said "Educational Leader" even though he thought that was a bit of a stretch but hey, he's a Kennel. And that's how a Kennel helped found UNC. _________ BL: That is remarkably consistent with accounts on-file in Spanky's basement on Franklin Street. Hard to beat a good "cobbler story" .
	8/13/2012 2:02:55 PM

	fayettewuf
	And if Duke was located in Newark, lots of their students could commute... I don't think proximity has much to do with the intensity. South of the border there is a pretty intense rivalry with Clemson being located about as far from Columbia as Salisbury is from Raleigh and last I heard those folks don't get along any better. ______ BL: It's not so much a Kumbaya issue. All rivalries have a intense HATE'em contingent on both sides. Alabama v Auburn might take that prize. But "here" it is an inescapable daily co-existence socially and professionally... more so than most cases. Because the actual institutions are so close as well as a high concentration of both alumni. I never expect a consensus on any incredible idea I propose! It's my cross I must bear. .
	8/13/2012 1:51:25 PM

	Dr Wire
	The rivalry began with a land grant decision to create State College and the surrounding debate against that move by administration and alumni from the "college whose name shall not be mentioned (TCWNSNBM)" and hence the first culture vs agriculture joke. The distance fuels the fire which ignited when athletic competition began back in the days when Democrats were proud, out spoken White Supremists. The Internet lets any idiot with a keyboard say stupid things about the other without having to pay a personal price so things just seem like they are worse now than before. If "TCWNSNBM" had agreed to follow the Ohio State model and accept an Ag school, it would be all different with probably a 100K football stadium watching 'em run with a pumpkin and peace in the valley would rein between Doctors and farmers, lawyers and engineers, even journalist and computer geeks. Then again if some inquisitive guys from PP had not checked McAdoo's work for plagiarism the whle unpleasantness would have ended with the NCAA penalty announcement and the rivalry would be back to normal. _______ BL: I'd say that is a very fair explanation of the situation. There actually are several very large state universities that do combine the various specialties of UNC & NCSU on one campus. Both Ohio State and Missouri are two examples. The culture v agriculture - cows v queers - etc does get lame, at least to me; but it ain't about to stop in my lifetime. :-( .
	8/13/2012 1:02:43 PM

	Colonel Mosby
	Suppose UNC had been founded in Charlotte instead of Chapel Hill. The Eastern North Carolina legislators would have even more reason to dislike those "libruls" and Wuffnation could join in the "Rawlee vs Shawlott" debate. _________ BL: Salisbury was my first choice for "just suppose" but then I figured Statesville was more central and has I-77 access. And all the nearby NASCAR shops would make a nice touch. ... Its a fun game anyone can play. .
	8/13/2012 11:22:53 AM

	Brian in Raleigh
	As a diehard Wolfpack fan... I sit back in amazement that an independent committee has yet to be formed to look into these shenanigans which makes Jimmy V's players look like budding scholars. But, if there is one place in this universe where the laws of physics, fair play, and ethics are completely void, that would be the NCAA... well that and the Halls of Congress. I'm starting to think that my tirade against Butch MF Davis was wrong. The more that comes out, the more it looks like Butch was thrown under the bus... err... the bow of the Flagship. He's a victim in all of this as the transgressions and grade giving have been common place well into the 1990s. Will the truth ever come out? I guarantee you if this had happened in Raleigh, we'd already be serving Year 2 of our 10 year death penalty. _______ BL: I'm sure you do think that Brian. I appreciate why you and other State fans are always convinced that would be the case. Words like "guarantee that" cause me to roll my eyes. I am not so cynical but I'm OK that you are. "Butch as a victim" ?? There is a little club of such folks over in Chapel Hill. I'll be glad to introduce you to them. I have supported an indep investgt for quite some time. Good luck against Tenn. :-) .
	8/13/2012 10:02:40 AM

	The Real "BobLee"
	Let me add a comment here precipitated by TravMan's comment below.... There was an intense UNC v NCSU rivalry before Marvin, Butch, Jennifer were BORN. There will be an intense UNC v NCSU rivalry long after all NCAA sanctions and investigations are done.... ever how many light years that may take. If I write a column on "my favorite rib joint in Uvalde Texas" some loon on some ABC monkey board will go bonkers that "BobLee is trying to cover up the WORLD's WORST SPORTS SCANDAL EVER at UNC". No, I am just talking about a rib joint in Uvalde Texas. And then.... just this past weekend I was stalked by a Butch / Deems toadie. ... This Internet Legend gig is a real hoot. Hoot Hoot Hoot. BobLee
	8/13/2012 9:41:11 AM

	Walt-in-Durham
	Bobby, Rivalries are the same the world over. I suspect Bombay cricket fans and Calcutta cricket fans lob jokes and barbs at one another. Of course, some rivalries get out of hand. Honduras and El Salvador got into a shooting war over soccer. Speaking of cricket, if India and Pakistan do break out the nukes, it'll probably be over a disputed cricket match. Walt-in-Durham _________ BL: Indeed they are Walt. In Euro-Soccer and cricket rivalries I'm pretty sure they use real bullets and arrows with poison-tips.... Maybe if Mumbai Cricket moved to New Delhi ??? .
	8/13/2012 9:19:36 AM

	nctravellinman
	BL, love you like a brother and enjoy reading your columns. Your comments regarding rivalries is certainly true. BUT, the core issue with the scandals at UNC-CH are far beyond a rivalry. Teachers are always teaching. And it is simply wrong that the culture in Chapel Hill teaches budding surgeons & dentists, among other honorable professions, that cheating and deceit are the way to get things done. Do you want your surgeon to have a taught personal value of thinking it's okay to cut corners & lie to you on your heart bypass surgery? ______ BL: WHOA TravMan! Your hyperbole is in over-drive. To link "The Two Julius'" to "UNC doctors may be unqualified" is a stretch that neither John Hinson nor Sam Perkins could make... I'm all for full disclosure regardless of the consequences and fall-out and have been since Day One. ... There ARE yet-to-be-identified co-conspirators in all this but to blanket indict The Entire University as "in on it" is silly. Julius Peppers being brought in to this is VERY UN-GOOD for UNC. VERY UN-GOOD INDEED! .
	8/13/2012 9:07:52 AM